Aimed at
mobilising millions of people against austerity, The People’s Assembly is a
growing movement supported by a broad coalition of trade unions, organisations,
politicians and journalists. On June 22 they will hold a large meeting with
thousands of activists opposite the houses of parliament. Green MP Caroline
Lucas talks to Mischa Wilmers about
the positive public response following rallies held in cities across the UK,
and her optimism on what the movement can achieve.
You’ve been speaking
at rallies for the People’s Assembly including the one in Brighton recently. What
has the reaction from the general public been like so far?
There has been an overwhelmingly positive reaction from the
general public. I think people are delighted
to hear the views that they’ve been working towards being reflected back at
them from so many different perspectives; whether that’s from unions or
different people in the Labour party, Green party or no party. You have journalists, economists; more and
more people are challenging the austerity ideology that we’ve been hearing, not
just from the government but sadly increasingly from the Labour front bench. People want the confidence to believe that
alternatives are possible. One of the
great opportunities for the People’s Assembly is to make that tangible, to
demonstrate that alternatives are possible and to challenge the economics of
the government. Even the IMF is saying
that at a time of deep recession, the idea that the best way to tackle the
deficit is by reducing demand even more and cutting public sector jobs is completely
the wrong way forward, that there’s been far too much austerity. Through the People’s Assembly, we’re able to
arm people with strong arguments, demonstrate that they’re not alone and
increasingly to connect up all the different local campaigns that there are
around the country. It’s important that
the Assembly doesn’t seek to duplicate what’s already happening, but I think
we’re a body that can help join up all the energy and be greater than the sum
of the parts.
An open letter
published in the Guardian in February states that the Assembly will “provide a
forum for anti-austerity views which while increasingly popular are barely
represented in parliament.” How do you think this can be achieved in practice?
Well, I’m hopeful that the meeting planned for June 22 in
London, which has already been hugely subscribed, will not just be a one off
meeting, but the beginning of a process. What that process will look like has to be
decided by the individuals who are there. At the minimum, we will identify the ways to
connect up the different campaigns with something everyone can agree with in
terms of what’s wrong with the government’s approach and the direction of a
better way forward. Hopefully we will
attract more people to join us who may not be 100 percent convinced by the
government’s line that there’s no alternative, but aren’t sure what the
alternative is. I think that applies to a
huge number of people out there. We have
some very good economic voices on our side who are saying, yes, we need to
address the deficit, but you don’t do it by throwing half a million public
sector workers out of work – with the knock on effect that has on the private
sector. The Assembly offers an agenda of
hope at a time when there is a great deal of hopelessness. It’s important for people to hear that there
is something different, and a positive agenda around investment in affordable
housing or investment in the green infrastructure we need if we’re serious
about tackling climate crisis.
Opinion polls suggest
people are losing faith in the Government’s austerity programme. However there
are still a significant number of people – backed by the right wing media – who
disagree with your position and some are calling for even deeper cuts. Is the
role of the People’s Assembly to persuade people to an anti-austerity position
or merely to mobilise those already converted?
I would say it’s both. On your first point about those
people who want greater cuts, I think we need to recognise that, for many on
the right, this economic crisis isn’t really a crisis at all – it’s an
opportunity for them to roll back the state. There are plenty of people on the right who
have never liked a strong state and who are seizing on the economic crisis as a
chance to weaken it. They use the constant
refrain of what caused the economic crisis was too much borrowing by Labour,
conveniently ignoring that what actually caused it was an international banking
crisis. So it’s not surprising that a
lot of people feel confused, because some of the messages they’re receiving are
completely disingenuous. There is now a
real opportunity, not only to mobilise people who would already oppose
austerity, but to help with the strong arguments to demonstrate the bankruptcy
of the pro-austerity camp. As well as
challenging the idea that a) it’s inevitable and b) it is to do with over
borrowing, I hope we can also get information out about the money supply,
because most people don’t know how money is created. Take the $16 trillion that was found to bail
out the banks globally a few years ago. That wasn’t found through taxation and it
wasn’t found down the back of the sofa – it was through a process of credit
creation. I think we need to have greater
discussions and debates to better understand how credit creation works, and
that it can work in our favour if we ensure that money goes directly into the
economy and doesn’t just get made by central banks, then passed to private
banks who speculate with it.
How important will it
be for the People’s Assembly to synchronise with similar movements around
Europe and internationally?
It was an international banking crisis and this is an
international crisis – and although each country has very different
circumstances, international solidarity and working together is absolutely
crucial. Capitalism is international and people’s movements need to be
international as well. So we’ve spoken
to organisations like the World Social Forum and demonstrated that there’s a
real appetite for making those connections across borders.
You’ve also been
working closely with the leaders of the Occupy movements. What do you think can
be learned from Occupy and are there any areas that could be improved on?
What was positive about the Occupy movement was that it
began to articulate alternatives to the status quo. There was some criticism that it knew very much
about what it was against, but not very much about what it was for. I don’t think that criticism was fair, but to
the extent that it may have taken a while to get closer to the positives, it is
something to learn from. We’re very much
a People’s Assembly with positive proposals, as well as being against
austerity.
Given the left’s
history of division and squabbling, what would you say to the sceptic who might
think this assembly is just more of the same?
Given that the issues on the table are so hugely important,
I hope it will rise above party political posturing or point scoring. The
rallies that have taken place around the country so far have included people of
some parties and no party, and it’s crucial that we don’t slide back into party
silos. We need to be very mindful of
that and I know, for example, when Owen Jones has been chairing his meetings,
he cracks down on sectarianism of any kind.
Everybody seems to realise that what’s at stake here is urgent and
important.
Some people are
concerned about the controlling influence of former Socialist Worker members in
the Peoples' Assembly, and are concerned about whether it is truly democratic.
What would you respond?
I haven’t witnessed a controlling influence of former SWP
members in the meetings. Is it truly democratic? In a sense, no it isn’t yet
because this is only the very beginnings of a coming together. It’s certainly
not a top down thing – there is a genuine recognition that this has to be a
bottom up process.
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